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Yeah, Super’s logic is terrible. Base Kids can wipe out everyone. Not having 18 there is stupid too.

Yeah it doesn’t make sense. Gotenks is definitely a great ally.

Yeah I hadn’t thought about it like that. The Galaxy busting Kamehameha gotta be stronger

I don’t think that’s what was being shown. Semi-Perfect’s power should be sufficient enough to get the job done.

Semi-Perfect Cell’s bomb can kill Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. 16’s can get the job done.

Why didn’t they call for the boys help against Freeza?

Ok, So Piccolo’s power is a surprise. So… Piccolo (U6) > Majin Buu > Piccolo (RoF) What’s the problem with that? Goku chooses Piccolo for U6 over Gohan and the boys not because of power but because of reliability. Why is that an issue? They just discarded the boys power at RoF, just like...

Piccolo is operating on a God level, he had to power up. He’s not God level in RoF. Piccolo (U6) > Base Goku (U6) Considering how Goku shows no surprise over Piccolo’s strength, he must have been made aware of it before. Also Goku’s choices aren’t power based. The kid’s power at RoF was...

There you go. Using Super to add to your position, not having to take a different approach. As of right now, I'm going with Piccolo getting a massive power-up. But this issue has been nagging me quite a bit, I definitely need to dive into it more. What's the exact quote?

I’m sorry, “Super is less canon” is not any real position to hold in the debating realm. I can’t stress this error enough. It’s not a matter of opinion here. If stating the facts dissuades you, it might be time to look at why instead of rebelliously holding onto your position.

That’s a completely different thing. I’m not arguing what it is, I’m arguing what it should be. The premise comes along with the acceptance that it’s not reality, whereas you think your narrative is. Hence the difference.

Exactly. That's how it works. What happens in the Buu Saga overrides possible implications from the Cell Saga, ala Tien > Krillen. You can prefer that, you just can't debate that is what I've been saying. "Super is less canon" is not a real debate argument. No matter how you dress it up. Of...

You are floundering so badly here. Your interpretation of the original manga does not supersede Super's new information. You don't have a leg to stand on. 1. Time Difference It's irrelevant, it's still Dragonball. 2. Author not in his prime Irrelevant, the author is still the author. 3...

The Daizenshuu is not canon, neither is the SEG. They are supplemental guidebooks. The manga is canon. Your interpretation on how things works is backwards. We compare source material to source material. Later source material overrides earlier source material. Your interpretations of the...

Dragonball's legitimacy is not dependent on having a specific editorial team. This does not affect what's canon and what's not. Dragonball's legitimacy is not dependent on the length of time the break was. Whether 20 years or 5 months, it's still all just Dragonball. Dragonball's legitimacy is...

Toriyama probably forgot something here. There's a massive change from the Budokai to the rest of the saga. The Shin business as well as Gohan. But there's a point where Super Saiyan becomes the standard, and the Super Saiyan 2 shown previously is largely forgotten about. So remember, the way...

Original manga is equal weight to the new manga. Therefore what comes later supersedes what came before. You don't seem to understand the latter part of my statement. That's why you still struggle with Piccolo vs Base Saiyans, because you aren't following logic. Later sagas overwrite previous...

Occam's Razor, the kids are as strong as Vegeta says they are. This is such a simple issue, it's madness to see it being debated against.

Vegeta implies that he knows 17 knows how strong Future Trunks is. There's no reason to doubt him.

How do you justify that? At least give Gohan a rage boost or something, my goodness.