Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

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Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby ahill1 » 04 Dec 2017, 14:19

Well, some people use the fact that Sanji defeated Mr. 2 in Alabasta while Zoro defeated Mr. 1, someone with a higher rank than Mr. 2, to denote Zoro's superiority over the cook. But shouldn't this logic lead to Sanji > Zoro in Thriller Bark, considering Sanji defeated Absalom, someone with a higher rank than Ryuuma?

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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby SSJ2 » 04 Dec 2017, 14:22

Is there anything factual to put Absalom > Ryuuma?
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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby ahill1 » 04 Dec 2017, 14:27

Is there anything factual to put Mr. 1 >Mr. 2?

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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby SSJ2 » 04 Dec 2017, 14:41

Mr 1 was going to kill him at the Baroque Works meeting.
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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby Captain Cadaver » 04 Dec 2017, 14:50

Crocodile going out of his way to state that Mr. 3's rank was due to his loyalty and cunning would imply most of his numbered soldiers are ranked based on power, or at least the top 5, whereas we don't have that for Moria's crew. If anything for Moria's crew, it's obvious that he cares more about utility than strength, unless you were to abandon all logic and say Perona and Hogback > Ryuma.

That, and even if Absalom > Ryuma, Sanji struggled a lot more with Absalom than Zoro did with Ryuma, not to mention Zoro having better feats against Moria and Oars.

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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby ahill1 » 04 Dec 2017, 15:02

If anything for Moria's crew, it's obvious that he cares more about utility than strength, unless you were to abandon all logic and say Perona and Hogback > Ryuma.
But both Perona and Hogback have abilities that could prove to be more useful in Moria's eyes, the former having her negativity ghosts (that was stated by Sanji to be pretty troublesome as an enemy's power) and the latter his medicine abilities, putting the already deceased bodies back in condition to be used again. Now, what does Absalom have besides his powers?

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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby Captain Cadaver » 04 Dec 2017, 15:12

But both Perona and Hogback have abilities that could prove to be more useful in Moria's eyes
Which was my point as to why it isn't comparable to the Baroque Works' ranking.
Now, what does Absalom have besides his powers?
Not being a zombie gives him advantages compared to those he commands, such as not having a weakness to salt or not being initially unruly or filled with an identity crisis like some with stronger shadows, such as Oars and Inuppe. This makes him less expendable than the zombies, even if there were some Generals, such as Ryuma, stronger than him.

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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby ahill1 » 04 Dec 2017, 15:27

Which was my point as to why it isn't comparable to the Baroque Works' ranking.
I know, but both Perona and Hogback do have abilities that could justify their higher rank, whereas I don't see anything Absalom does have besides strength, even more when he was very proud of the way Hogback did build his body, using beasts' flesh. Granted that he had his invisibility, but that still delves itself in a hand to hand combat.

Like you said, the identity crisis in only found in the beginning, like how that Penguim-dog with Sanji's shadow wouldn't kick Nami at first but then would do so later against Robin, so I don't see it being that much of an issue, specially when they were so loyal to Hogback that they'd jump out of the window when he "told" to.

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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby Captain Cadaver » 04 Dec 2017, 15:31

I know, but both Perona and Hogback do have abilities that could justify their higher rank, whereas I don't see anything Absalom does have besides strength, even more when he was very proud of the way Hogback did build his body, using beasts' flesh. Granted that he had his invisibility, but that still delves itself in a hand to hand combat.
His invisibility would also be useful for gathering information, so he has more uses than just a brawler.
Like you said, the identity crisis in only found in the beginning, like how that Penguim-dog with Sanji's shadow wouldn't kick Nami at first but then would do so later against Robin, so I don't see it being that much of an issue, specially when they were so loyal to Hogback that they'd jump out of the window when he "told" to.
That in itself is also a reason as to why Absalom would be put in charge. Whilst Moria wants loyal subordinates, having ones with little free thinking that can become mindless drones isn't the best idea in leading a crew's unit.

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Re: Zoro and Sanji --> a leap in logic?

Postby ahill1 » 04 Dec 2017, 18:36

I know, but both Perona and Hogback do have abilities that could justify their higher rank, whereas I don't see anything Absalom does have besides strength, even more when he was very proud of the way Hogback did build his body, using beasts' flesh. Granted that he had his invisibility, but that still delves itself in a hand to hand combat.
His invisibility would also be useful for gathering information, so he has more uses than just a brawler.
Fair enough, I guess.
That in itself is also a reason as to why Absalom would be put in charge. Whilst Moria wants loyal subordinates, having ones with little free thinking that can become mindless drones isn't the best idea in leading a crew's unit.
But Brook stated that the obedience of the zombies is a huge benefit... so I don't think their mindless obedience should be a factor in Moria ranking them, and iirc even Moria stated how their huge obedience is one of the best things about the zombies.
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