Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

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Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Fearless 3:16 » 21 Sep 2017, 09:43

Maybe in terms of power?

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby withheldforprivacy » 21 Sep 2017, 11:13

I'm not against SSJ2 being the ''correct'' ASSJ.

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Fearless 3:16 » 21 Sep 2017, 11:14

Well yeah, Goku made it clear that way but what about the early ASSjin?

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Idea of Gaslight » 21 Sep 2017, 12:14

SSJ2 definitely has the greater boost. They aren't similar in power, but similar in concept considering both increase speed and power at the cost of increased stamina loss.
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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Goku9001 » 21 Sep 2017, 17:41

Never. ASSJin was explicitly stated and shown to be much weaker than an MSSJ which is presumably a requirement in order to obtain SSJ2. I don't think it can even match SSJ2 even with a similar multiplier.

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Fearless 3:16 » 21 Sep 2017, 17:45

Never. ASSJin was explicitly stated and shown to be much weaker than an MSSJ which is presumably a requirement in order to obtain SSJ2. I don't think it can even match SSJ2 even with a similar multiplier.
MSSjin wasn't said to be stronger than ASSjin but a better body for stamina and speed.

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby GreatSaiyaman123 » 21 Sep 2017, 18:08

No.
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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Goku9001 » 21 Sep 2017, 18:35

Never. ASSJin was explicitly stated and shown to be much weaker than an MSSJ which is presumably a requirement in order to obtain SSJ2. I don't think it can even match SSJ2 even with a similar multiplier.
MSSjin wasn't said to be stronger than ASSjin but a better body for stamina and speed.
Context proves that it was as Goku completely shattered Vegeta's pride after powering up on Korin's tower.

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Future Warrior » 21 Sep 2017, 18:36

Never. ASSJin was explicitly stated and shown to be much weaker than an MSSJ which is presumably a requirement in order to obtain SSJ2. I don't think it can even match SSJ2 even with a similar multiplier.
MSSjin wasn't said to be stronger than ASSjin but a better body for stamina and speed.
Then why don't they ever use grade forms under certain circumstances that would have made it useful?
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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Goku9001 » 21 Sep 2017, 18:40



Then why don't they ever use grade forms under certain circumstances that would have made it useful?
My theory is that they only serve as a means to tap into the Full Power of a Super Saiyan and since Goku/Gohan already did that through becoming MSSJs, they can no longer make further gains without undergoing the next step, SSJ2. What we're told is that MSSJ is far better even if they can't undergo an even greater transformation. At least that's my interpretation when Vegeta chastised Trunks telling him that Goku/Gohan forgone any extra transformation they could make in favor of a greater and more effective power-boost by remaining as Super Saiyans.

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Fantastische Hure » 21 Sep 2017, 19:27

Super-Saiyan Grade-II is just an evolved Super-Saiyan form from the original, where-as Super-Saiyan 2 is a completely different Super-Saiyan transformation superior to the normal Super-Saiyan in every-way.

That was obviously before 2 and 3 were said to be just powered-up versions of the normal Super-Saiyan and the numbering of the forms.
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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Future Warrior » 21 Sep 2017, 19:39

My theory is that they only serve as a means to tap into the Full Power of a Super Saiyan and since Goku/Gohan already did that through becoming MSSJs, they can no longer make further gains without undergoing the next step, SSJ2. What we're told is that MSSJ is far better even if they can't undergo an even greater transformation. At least that's my interpretation when Vegeta chastised Trunks telling him that Goku/Gohan forgone any extra transformation they could make in favor of a greater and more effective power-boost by remaining as Super Saiyans.
Interesting... so is there a specific multiplier that the Grade forms/Mastered Super Saiyan has over the original Super Saiyan?
Super-Saiyan Grade-II is just an evolved Super-Saiyan form from the original, where-as Super-Saiyan 2 is a completely different Super-Saiyan transformation superior to the normal Super-Saiyan in every-way.

That was obviously before 2 and 3 were said to be just powered-up versions of the normal Super-Saiyan and the numbering of the forms.
So does that mean you don't believe SS1 needs to be achieved before level 2?
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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Goku9001 » 21 Sep 2017, 19:44



Interesting... so is there a specific multiplier that the Grade forms/Mastered Super Saiyan has over the original Super Saiyan?
This is where things get complicated. I think the point of Goku's training was to allow their own bodies to acclimate to the strain that the Super Saiyan form and get accustomed to using all of that increased power which allowed their own "base form" to skyrocket as a result which allowed them to make greater gains as an MSSJ. SSJG2 and 3 IMO, do have higher multipliers, but their gains are inhibited by the physical limitations of these forms which prevents them from training extensively and effectively and doesn't allow their own "base forms" to grow nearly as much as it would if they allowed their bodies to get accustomed to the stress. That's how I think the large disparity between ASSJins and MSSJins is explained.
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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Goku9001 » 21 Sep 2017, 19:45



Interesting... so is there a specific multiplier that the Grade forms/Mastered Super Saiyan has over the original Super Saiyan?
This is where things get complicated. I think the point of Goku's training was to allow their own bodies to acclimate to the strain that the Super Saiyan form and get accustomed to using all of that increased power which allowed their own "base form" to skyrocket as a result which allowed them to make greater gains as an MSSJ. SSJG2 and 3 IMO, do have higher multipliers, but their gains are inhibited by the physical limitations of these forms which prevents them from training extensively and effectively and doesn't allow their own "base forms" to grow nearly as much as it would if they allowed their bodies to get accustomed to the stress. That's how I think the large disparity between ASSJins and MSSJins is explained.
Ugh, accidentally quoted lol.

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Re: Can ASSjin ~ SSjin2?

Postby Fantastische Hure » 21 Sep 2017, 22:59

My theory is that they only serve as a means to tap into the Full Power of a Super Saiyan and since Goku/Gohan already did that through becoming MSSJs, they can no longer make further gains without undergoing the next step, SSJ2. What we're told is that MSSJ is far better even if they can't undergo an even greater transformation. At least that's my interpretation when Vegeta chastised Trunks telling him that Goku/Gohan forgone any extra transformation they could make in favor of a greater and more effective power-boost by remaining as Super Saiyans.
Interesting... so is there a specific multiplier that the Grade forms/Mastered Super Saiyan has over the original Super Saiyan?
Super-Saiyan Grade-II is just an evolved Super-Saiyan form from the original, where-as Super-Saiyan 2 is a completely different Super-Saiyan transformation superior to the normal Super-Saiyan in every-way.

That was obviously before 2 and 3 were said to be just powered-up versions of the normal Super-Saiyan and the numbering of the forms.
So does that mean you don't believe SS1 needs to be achieved before level 2?
Sorry. I didn't see this before, because I was busy with something-else, but I honestly don't know. Boo Saga would have you believe that Super-Saiyan does need to be achieved before, but then the Cell Saga seems to treat Super-Saiyan 2 as a completely separate transformation superior to regular Super-Saiyan in every-way.
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