Goku in M10

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Goku in M10

Postby Lord Brofist » 17 Jun 2015, 10:50

Regardless of whether or not it was the sun that finished off Broly, its clear that the combined Kamehameha was far beyond what he could handle once everyone went all out.

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Goku in M10

Postby Syn » 17 Jun 2015, 10:57

Broly was killed by the sun, not the blast.
Broly was seen both having his body breaking apart into separate pieces and losing blood before even making contact with the sun so he was more than likely dead upon getting there and the sun incinerated his remains.

As for the whole topic of whether Goku was Super Saiyan or not. The movie was released sometime before Majin Buu made is debut so before SSJ2 Goku was revealed in the anime and RIGHT after SSJ2 Goku was revealed in the manga so Toei may have had knowledge of SSJ2 Goku by the time the movie was released but definitely no knowledge of him having SSJ2 when production of the movie started and while it was being made. Just like with M8. It was more than likely in production during the Perfect Cell saga and before the Cell Games started in the manga and released when the Cell Games had actually started in the anime.
Broly was seen having his body broken apart in Movie 8, not to mention exploding.

Your point is?
Last edited by Syn on 17 Jun 2015, 11:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Goku in M10

Postby Lord Brofist » 17 Jun 2015, 21:42

I'd also like to point out that SSj2 Goku actually made his first appearance during the battle with Yakon which happened on December 14, 1993. So in such a case considering Movie 10 was released on Mach 12, 1994, this means that by the time of movie 10's released, Toei would have known about SSj2 Goku for the past 3 months.

Whether or not SSj2 Goku was a thing when Movie 10 first started production may be possible. But it clear as day that by the time movie 10 was released, it had already been nearly three months since SSj2 Goku appeared fighting Yakon.

Consider this. During Movie 6 release, the latest chapter of the manga had just now gotten to the point where Piccolo had fused with god. This makes it practically impossible for Piccolo to be fused in Movie six. Yet for some reason, instead of just having Kami on the lookout doing his thing, they instead put Dende on there and Kami is nowhere to be seen.

What happened, was he on vacation? Personally my belief is that they most likely started it off with Piccolo just as Piccolo and the starting scene probably was them on the ship heading to Namek. Then they find out Piccolo fused and just sort of try to implement that in some way, more on trying to make the Saiyans look good in this case I'd say.

That was done within about 2 weeks, right before the premier of Movie 6.

Imagine what could happen if they had a 3 months notice before said premier. This is what happens with SSJ2 Goku and movie 10.

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Goku in M10

Postby Southern Gothic » 18 Jun 2015, 01:52

That's some nice work, Mr. Brofist. I am going to pin this topic for now. I think the dates and references you provided are worth keeping around, and are relevant to this discussion, particularly regarding the timeline of Goku's SSJ2 appearance in both manga and anime.
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Goku in M10

Postby Pakl » 18 Jun 2015, 08:39

Mehh... I addressed it in my post.. To start off, it doesnt matter if TOEI knew Goku had SSjin 2 or not.. If its not known in tge series, it cant be seen... Dende in movie 6 was to clarify wgat happened in Namek IMO... Piccolo in movie 6 is the same one who fought 20... He is weaker than SSjin Goku... Not to mention nothing indicates he even used SSjin 2 in movie 10... And movies follow the Anime and not Manga
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Goku in M10

Postby Lord Brofist » 18 Jun 2015, 09:02

Yeah it kind of does matter that toei knows Goku had SSj2. It was kind of known in the series. It was known for the past three flipping months.

Why was Dende needed? Why did they put him on the Lookout as a clear new guardian when in fact he should be on Namek doing whatever. Why not just have Dende on Namek praying that someone will save his people from Cooler? Instead they opt to put in a place that he won't even be in the manga until several chapters.

Movies don't have to follow the anime, especially when its clear as day that Toei can easily read the manga. That's what they kind of have to use when their making the episodes and movies.

And yes there's actually quite a lot of evidence to support Goku being an SSj2.

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Postby Fearless Zamasu » 18 Jun 2015, 09:45

Gogeta was already used by Toei in the M12 before Vegito was made.
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Goku in M10

Postby Pakl » 18 Jun 2015, 10:54

Yeah it kind of does matter that toei knows Goku had SSj2. It was kind of known in the series. It was known for the past three flipping months.

Why was Dende needed? Why did they put him on the Lookout as a clear new guardian when in fact he should be on Namek doing whatever. Why not just have Dende on Namek praying that someone will save his people from Cooler? Instead they opt to put in a place that he won't even be in the manga until several chapters.

Movies don't have to follow the anime, especially when its clear as day that Toei can easily read the manga. That's what they kind of have to use when their making the episodes and movies.

And yes there's actually quite a lot of evidence to support Goku being an SSj2.
No it was not known in the series since it was not in the Anime

Dende being the gurdian doesn't mean anything... It doesn't change the fact that Piccolo in movie 6 is the same as his early Androids Arc self

Movies do follow the Anime... They read the Manga and use it for the Anime but not the movies.. The movies are released after the Anime episodes which the movie follows.. Like you don't know it anyway...

M1 was revealed when the Manga was at Goku using Kaioken x3 on Vegeta but it follows the Radit Arc because the Anime episodes were only after the battle with Raditz

M was revealed when the Manga was at Zarbon aboit to transform vs Vegeta yet the movie was Saiyan Arc because it was revealed just after Vegeta was defeated

Etc etc...

Don't try to deny the fact that the movies follow the Anime episodes.. It doesn't matter what was shown in the Manga.. The Anime comes before the movies.. Even, in movie 12 Gotenks doesn't have SSjin 3 and Gohan is not ultimate bcause it was not revealed in the Anime despite the Manga being at after Vegetto was absorbed by Gohan-Boo

More evidence to prove he was SSjin.. The only thing you have is his hair having one bang which is not even the SSjin 2 hair

I have a thread proving he was SSjin.. You have a bad habbit to ignore what's posted sir
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Goku in M10

Postby Pakl » 18 Jun 2015, 10:55

Gogeta was already used by Toei in the M12 before Vegito was made.
Gogeta was used because Toriyama never even intended to use Gogeta at that time... He wanted Gohan to beat Boo.. Wat does that prove?
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Goku in M10

Postby Lord Brofist » 18 Jun 2015, 13:37

Anime doesn't matter. SSj2 Goku first appeared and was known about in the manga for nearly 3 months. Hell, SSJ2 Adult Gohan doesn't make his first appearance until March 02, 1994, only a little before the release date of Movie 10. But Gohan was an SSJ2 in movie 10 because we have actual concept art from him. Concept art that is taken directly from the manga.

Super Gotenks and the ghosts in the anime first appeared around March 01, 1995. Do you know when the movie was released? March 04, 1994. You think in the span of exactly 3 days Toei went up and added an entire scene and dialogue with Gotenks right before the movie's premier?

SSJ2 Kid Gohan makes his first appearance in the anime on 05/05/1993. Movie 9 was released on 06/10/1993, just around 1 month afterwards. Movie 9 must have had a very short production time for them to get all that done since Gohan appeared. I mean SSJ2 Kid Gohan first appeared in the anime only a month ago so that's how much time they must have had to put him in there.

Goodness knows how they managed to fit Gotens in movie 12 in the time they were given.


Yes, its kind of clear that they would use the manga. They have it right there right in front of them for them to use. They can easily look at the pages, look at the designs of the character and easily use that as a basis.

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Postby Southern Gothic » 18 Jun 2015, 14:10

Super Gotenks and the ghosts in the anime first appeared around March 01, 1995. Do you know when the movie was released? March 04, 1994. You think in the span of exactly 3 days Toei went up and added an entire scene and dialogue with Gotenks right before the movie's premier?

That's 1 year and 3 days you listed, not 3 days. Looks like a typo but I am not up on these dates.
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Goku in M10

Postby Lord Brofist » 18 Jun 2015, 15:08

Super Gotenks and the ghosts in the anime first appeared around March 01, 1995. Do you know when the movie was released? March 04, 1994. You think in the span of exactly 3 days Toei went up and added an entire scene and dialogue with Gotenks right before the movie's premier?

That's 1 year and 3 days you listed, not 3 days. Looks like a typo but I am not up on these dates.
It was a typo.

Movie 12 release was March 04,1995

Gotenks first used the ghosts in the anime on March 01, 1995, again only 3 days before Movie 12's release.

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Postby Fearless Zamasu » 18 Jun 2015, 15:17

Pyrus post the release date of the movies with the Manga as well but I don't know if it's correct or not since Guliver aka Paul was arguing that there's an error.
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Postby Pakl » 18 Jun 2015, 15:25

Anime doesn't matter. SSj2 Goku first appeared and was known about in the manga for nearly 3 months. Hell, SSJ2 Adult Gohan doesn't make his first appearance until March 02, 1994, only a little before the release date of Movie 10. But Gohan was an SSJ2 in movie 10 because we have actual concept art from him. Concept art that is taken directly from the manga.

Super Gotenks and the ghosts in the anime first appeared around March 01, 1995. Do you know when the movie was released? March 04, 1994. You think in the span of exactly 3 days Toei went up and added an entire scene and dialogue with Gotenks right before the movie's premier?

SSJ2 Kid Gohan makes his first appearance in the anime on 05/05/1993. Movie 9 was released on 06/10/1993, just around 1 month afterwards. Movie 9 must have had a very short production time for them to get all that done since Gohan appeared. I mean SSJ2 Kid Gohan first appeared in the anime only a month ago so that's how much time they must have had to put him in there.

Goodness knows how they managed to fit Gotens in movie 12 in the time they were given.


Yes, its kind of clear that they would use the manga. They have it right there right in front of them for them to use. They can easily look at the pages, look at the designs of the character and easily use that as a basis.
Exactly, M10 was revealed after Gohan was shown to have SSjin 2 vs Kibito because it's first shown in the Anime.. It doesn't matter what TOEI did before but the fact they reveal the movie after what's shown in the Anime is always there and SSjin 2 was not in the series.. SSjin 2 Goku never even used full power vs Yakon... You use bad evidence and again, Manga has nothing to do with it.. You keep ignoring my posts as usual

You don't seem to get it huh? I am not saying TOEI makes it after it's evealed in the Anime.. I am saying they reveal the movie after everything was shown in the Anime.. It's clear they can have the production of the movie before the Anime shows it but they reveal it to the audience after the Anime shows it.. big deifference

Fun fact, M12 Gotenks only has SSjin and not SSjin 3.. You know why? because it's never revealed in the series same as Gohan not being ultimate... All the things you used were already revealed in the Anime.. M9 was revealed after the CG.. I am not saying TOEI makes the movie after the things are shown in the series but reveal it to the audience after.. Yet, SSjin 2 Goku was not even known to the audience.. Not even in the Manga

They use the Manga for designs to save time but they don't reveal the movies before the Anime shows it.. The Anime is the basic
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Goku in M10

Postby Lord Brofist » 18 Jun 2015, 15:50

Pyrus post the release date of the movies with the Manga as well but I don't know if it's correct or not since Guliver aka Paul was arguing that there's an error.
I'm assuming KP was using the guides from Kazenshuu which is what I'm using.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/tankobon/ (Manga list)

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/ (Movie List)

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/episode/dbz/list/ (Anime Episode List)

Each one details the release date of both the volumes and when each episode or chapter was released as well.


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