Different positions about how SSBE Vegeta, God Toppo and SSBKKx20 Goku compares with each other

[Natasha Romanoff]

Case #1: Had Toppo or Vegeta surpassed Goku it'd had been mentioned

If God Toppo or SSJBE Vegeta were stronger it'd be fair to assume that someone or even Goku himself could have said so, as shown in previous arc, every time Vegeta surpasses Goku it is said by at least one character:

Spoiler: Pre Rosat

Spoiler: Battle of Gods

Spoiler: Resurrection of Freeza

Spoiler: Goku Black Saga

As this is a thread filled with images, I'll left here the introduction.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Case #2: Position of at least Vegeta being stronger

Jiren appreciated him twice, something which he didn't do with Kaioken Goku:

Spoiler

Possible counter: Jiren also appreciated SSJB Vegeta's Final Flash despite of being nowhere near SSJBKKx20 Goku.

Spoiler

My position: I don't think it exists an actual way to know wheter Toppo or Vegeta surpassed Kaioken x20 Goku.

As of now I have:

Kaioken x20 Goku (Post TOP) = Evolved Vegeta (126) > God Toppo >= Kaioken x20 Goku (123 - 127) >= Evolved Vegeta (123)

Aside from the possibility of Evolved Vegeta (123) = Kaioken x20 Goku (123 - 127) nothing would dictate God Toppo being stronger than Kaioken x20 Goku (123 - 127).

However, given how God Toppo overpowered SSJBE Vegeta initially I think it's possible to say that he was at little bit stronger than Kaioken x20 Goku. Even if thinking that Vegeta surpassed Kaioken x20 Goku he would end up being slightly superior to Toppo or Goku, so it's up to you to decide who is stronger between Kaioken x20 Goku and God Toppo (who ends up being stronger in your list is opinionated at the end).

I would like to meet your position on this regard.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I forget about this image:

Spoiler

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Possible counter: Jiren also appreciated SSJB Vegeta's Final Flash despite of being nowhere near SSJBKKx20 Goku.

How strong do you think the Final Flash was? Even Belmond was worried about Jiren when he sensed it.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

How strong do you think the Final Flash was? Even Belmond was worried about Jiren when he sensed it.

He was nowhere near as strong as many people believe it to be. Is weaker than Initial SSJBE Vegeta given how it was treated by Great Priest.

That comment coming from Belmod comes in relation to how he initially viewed him as nothing, like when Hit got eliminated and he said "there's nobody who can threat Jiren now", which tell us that he severely underrated the potential of the other mortals.

Spoiler

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He was nowhere near as strong as many people believe it to be. Is weaker than Initial SSJBE Vegeta given how it was treated by Great Priest.

That comment coming from Belmod comes in relation to how he initially viewed him as nothing, like when Hit got eliminated and he said "there's nobody who can threat Jiren now", which tell us that he severely underrated the potential of the other mortals.

Spoiler

View attachment 2862View attachment 2863

Depending on how strong SSJBE Vegeta is, I think the Final Flash could be quite strong. I'd say at least above the Genki-Dama since that didn't worry Belmond.

Also the narrator says Vegeta unlocked SSJBE by "enveloping himself on his limit-breaking power", so I like to think SSJBE = FF.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Depending on how strong SSJBE Vegeta is, I think the Final Flash could be quite strong. I'd say at least above the Genki-Dama since that didn't worry Belmond.

The Final Flash is nowhere near a 20x increase which Evolved form is. I don't know whether it could possibly be stronger than the Genkidama, Jiren tanked the FF while the Genkidama makes Roshi believe if landed on Jiren he would be defeated.

Also the narrator says Vegeta unlocked SSJBE by "enveloping himself on his limit-breaking power", so I like to think SSJBE = FF.

According to the narrator in 122, it was a full powered Final Flash coming from SSB Vegeta, while Vegeta's Evolved form is a limit breaker of the form.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The Final Flash is nowhere near a 20x increase which Evolved form is. I don't whether it could possibly be stronger than the Genkidama, Jiren tanked the FF while the Genkidama makes Roshi believe if landed on Jiren he would be defeated.

If Piccolo could charge his SBC up to SSJB levels, why can't Vegeta charge his FF to 20x? And why would Belmond be so worried about Jiren be so worried about an attack that's not stronger than KKx20 Goku or Hit's own powers? He understood Jiren's powers better than Roshi and he thought the Genki-Dama would be a piece of cake.

According to the narrator in 122, it was a full powered Final Flash, while Vegeta's Evolved form is a limit breaker of the form.

Same thing. Goku's Kamehameha against Zamasu is also said to be a full power attack, but it was clearly a limit breaker.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

If Piccolo could charge his SBC up to SSJB levels, why can't Vegeta charge his FF to 20x? And why would Belmond be so worried about Jiren be so worried about an attack that's not stronger than KKx20 Goku or Hit's own powers? He understood Jiren's powers better than Roshi and he thought the Genki-Dama would be a piece of cake.

Which part? Super Hero?

Belmod was worried when Vegeta pressured Jiren to the edge, yet his personality radically changes when he got the advantage again.

Spoiler

Then, he and Kai were pressuming about how Vegeta never had a chance, so them being worried is just there to depict them as morons.

They pretty much knows how Jiren's modus operandi works:

Spoiler

And the Genkidama could at least show some doubt to Marcarita to what will happen which is clearly more reliable than those two.

Same thing. Goku's Kamehameha against Zamasu is also said to be a full power attack, but it was clearly a limit breaker.

Something that I've thought about. Goku yelled "Full Power", so why didn't he use Kaioken x10 in that brief moment but to the point in which nobody else is able to perceived and Merged Zamasu was initially weaker than Kaioken x10 Goku?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Which part? Super Hero?

Which part? Super Hero?

Against Saonel and Pirina.

Belmod was worried when Vegeta pressured Jiren to the edge, yet his personality radically changes when he got the advantage again.

Spoiler

View attachment 2877

Then, he and Kai were pressuming about how Vegeta never had a chance, so them being worried is just there to depict them as morons.

They pretty much knows how Jiren's modus operandi works:

Spoiler

View attachment 2878

And the Genkidama could at least show some doubt to Marcarita to what will happen which is clearly more reliable than those two.

I think Marcarita’s line was more of a foreshadow that the Genki-Dama would lead to Goku unlocking Ultra Instinct. It’s not just Belmond, but Goku and Toppo are also rather impressed/worried by Vegeta’s power. If the Final Flash was 3x in the Cell Saga, I can see this super charged Final Flash being at least 10x.

Something that I've thought about. Goku yelled "Full Power", so why didn't he use Kaioken x10 in that brief moment but to the point in which nobody else is able to perceived and Merged Zamasu was initially weaker than Kaioken x10 Goku?

I really wish Goku would’ve used KKx10 too, but the lack of the red aura makes it unlikely.

Even if he did use Kaio-Ken, the Kamehameha himself was different from others since it broke Goku’s arms.