What the Toei movies could have been

[Fantastische Hure]

Most of the movies are bad but the TV-Specials that go for roughly the same length of time were the best. I think it's quite obvious if Toei is goes with the manga instead of going with what-if scenarios or random bad gai appears out of nowhere & the right writers/team working on the production the end results could have been much better.

So what'd you have done?

I have a few ideas:

Spoiler

DragonBall movie showing the war against Piccolo-Daimao before he was sealed (there was a flash-back in the anime of this).

DragonBall movie showing Tenshinhan's & Chaozu's time in the school. There was an interesting anime scene where Tao beat-up/"trained" Tenshinhan.

DragonBall movie showing how Kami became the Kami of earth (didn't he also beat some-one out for that position?). This'd also show how Piccolo-Daimao came. Interesting.

One of the old Tenkaichi-Budokais, I'm thinking of a certain one. I think was there one Master-Roshi won before (I thought that was stated)?

For DragonBall Z movies:

Something before the beginning of DragonBall Z with Goku & Gohan and the family. You could maybe show something like Gohan show his potential but for that not to be so much for Goku to be like "woah" like he did against Raditz or maybe just write it off, since Goku did say at the beginning he thought Gohan had some potential when he introduced Gohan to the others.

Maybe show Vegeta & Raditz & Nappa work for Freeza and the mission they were having some trouble with which they tried to get Goku to help them for.

Orginal Super-Saiyan

How Goku attained SSJ3 in the after-life.

Kaio-Shins vs Boo

The person that sealed Elder Kaio-Shin into the sword.

Adventures on Yardrat (maybe showing how Goku learned to control SSJ since he did say it took some time to get the hang of it, maybe he met an opponent that was too much for KKx20).

If Movie 11 did really have to be focused on Goten & Trunks, it could be pre Boo-saga. Like the never before seen ending-credits for Movie 11.

This is a what-if, but anyway what if Goku hadn't died in the future & didn't get the virus? How'd the battle against the androids go?

I listed too many, I probably could put that in a spoiler-tag.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

DragonBall movie showing how Kami became the Kami of earth (didn't he also beat some-one out for that position?). This'd also show how Piccolo-Daimao came. Interesting.

He beat out Garlic for it as revealed in Movie 1, which would require an extensive rewrite of Movie 1 to fit it into canon.

I actually had a similar idea for a similar thread to this, though somewhat an inversion of your thread in a way, of which I'll post at some point.

Maybe show Vegeta & Raditz & Nappa work for Freeza and the mission they were having some trouble with which they tried to get Goku to help them for.

Raditz's words suggested they hadn't actually tried to conquer that planet yet.
I would like to see a film focused on the 3 Saiyans under Freeza's army. Depending how it's presented, the lessons of mercilessness and Saiyan pride Vegeta learned could be juxtaposed with his many years with his comrades to help show some internal care for them despite his actions that he never allowed to surface, offering his Saiyan Arc character more depth.

Kaio-Shins vs Boo

Filler already did this, though a more extensive version would be nice.

This is a what-if

Speaking of which, I'm not sure why the anime/manga hasn't focused at all on what-if spinoffs. Such things have been made a staple part of the games ever since the Budokai trilogy and some of the most famous western franchises are no stranger to it; Marvel having established What-Ifs as a mainstream concept, DC offering Elseworld stories as a way for a writer's vision to not interfere with continuity and Star Wars having a brief stint with this through the Infinities comic line of Original Trilogy what-ifs.
Aside from Heroes being pandering through what-if transformations, the closest thing to this is the Yamcha Gaiden, which is more of an isekai parody.

 

[Theallpowerfulpuipui]

1. A little elf man gets immortality and shit
2. Brain man gets cool robot suit
3. Z Fighters vs Tree
4. King Piccolo returns!
5. Frieza's has a brother and he's mad
6. Frieza has 1o00 robot brothers and he's mad
7. Gohan tries to get out of being homeschooled
8. The strongest villain imaginable
9. Z Fighters vs Pirates yohoho
10. The strongester villain imaginable 2
11. The strongestest villain imaginable 3
12. Hitler vs Z Fighters
13. Trunks' Sword: The Genesis

 

[Captain Cadaver]

1. Gohan trips out on some apples - You won't guess what he does to Kuririn!

Fixed

 

[Fantastische Hure]

@CC: I knew it was shown in flash-backs in the anime but I also thought it'd be nice to see that more fleshed-out, like maybe show the Kaio-Shins before too in peaceful times, like we saw Zamas & Gowasu before he turned full-on Light Yagami mode.

Great brains think alike. What do you mean by inversion though? A thread like this but the other way round?

@Pui-Pui: Those sound so good I wish they could be true.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Many moons ago.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dragonball_z_forum/could-they-have-done-a-special-out-of-the-piccolo--t69132.html

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Also here's another idea, that's actually better than a-lot of the one listed I think I think.

A movie about the events before the series. The movie'd be about Young Goku & Grand-Pa Gohan. We know that Grand-Pa Gohan taught Goku the martial-arts (IIRC). Grand-Pa Gohan also told Goku not to come-out when it's full-moon outside so Oozaru transformation most likely happened at-least once before. Oozaru sadly results in Grand-Pa Gohan's death. The four-star DragonBall.

Also depends on if the movie has information from DragonBall Z. The movie could start with Goku being an aggressive baby who doesn't listen to Grand-Pa Gohan, hitting his head, nursed back to health, becoming the Goku we know. Even Master-Roshi could make an appearance since he said he was he was told about Goku by Grand-Pa Gohan, but maybe he doesn't see him for some-reason.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

What do you mean by inversion though? A thread like this but the other way round?

I mean a thread discussing how someone would write the movie plot lines into canon, rather than turning canon events into movies.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

That sounds interesting. Will you write one for each movie?

What would you liked to have seen, as in pertaining to this thread?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Some Vegeta/Trunks time in ROSAT.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

That sounds interesting. Will you write one for each movie?

To some extent.

What would you liked to have seen, as in pertaining to this thread?

As far as canon movies go:

- A canonised version of the Saiyan-Tsufurian War, going in-depth as to the history between the two races and mainly focusing on the Tsufurian's point of view to show their technological society and adding some level of tragedy in their inevitable demise.
- A backstory for Yamcha as well as maybe Ten and Chaozu. The former is quite interesting in the first two story arcs as the story of how he became a bandit willing to easily kill others whilst also being someone who could adapt to city life with no problem and have such a varied knowledge on martial arts techniques like Son Gohan's style, the Kamehameha, Bacterian, etc. made Yamcha quite fascinating at first until all that went nowhere. Ten and Chaozu hold some interest in Ten's third eye and Chaozu's ageless appearance, factors that weren't phased out even after the fantastical elements of Earth's regular life started to be phased out in the Cell Arc, so having a story about that could work and maybe clear up the whole "Is Ten really human?" debate.
- Raditz, Nappa and Vegeta's missions together.
- The Ginyu Tokusentai being assembled.
- Roshi's testosterone-fuelled regime of discipline in making his Manly GAINZ

 

[Pakl]

How are most of the movies bad?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

How are most of the movies bad?

I have a better question. How are they not?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

How are most of the movies bad?

It ought to be self-evident (and if not, I recommend you view the pinned Dragon Ball/DBZ Movie Reviews thread), but I'll summarise some of the major flaws, aside from the very obvious one that the majority of them can't even fit into the main continuity and thus are scenarios we're given little context to work with:

Movie 2 - It makes no sense how Uiro's brain is so large or how he plans to fit it in a human body.
Movie 4 - Slug is a ripoff of Piccolo Daimao with far less interesting motivations.
Movie 5 - Coola's characterisation is hollow, being what happens when you strip away the unique qualities of Freeza's personality. Super Saiyan not being something Goku can use at will also contradicts how it's used in the fight with Freeza.
Movie 6 - Coola's survival via Shunkan Ido is a massive plot hole when he never presented it in the previous film. There also isn't much plot within the film beyond the typical "bad guy invades and Goku has to stop him" plot line that was already cliched by the time of this movie, Goku and Vegeta not facing the Metal Coola army is a big disservice to the film's title and the way Coola is killed is anticlimactic.
Movie 7 - It's a major contrivance that there's yet another supercomputer working on the androids, the support cast boil down to one note gags (Roshi being a pervert, Kuririn being helpless, etc.) and the villains have zero characterisation.
Movie 8 - Broly's characterisation isn't quite as bad as most claim in his motivations in premise (at least he has a somewhat unique one unlike a lot of the villains), though the execution is poor when Broly shouldn't have been able to even see Goku to the side of his incubation chamber and him still remembering Goku from then after having suffered far more than his crying. Also, the Toei Punch at the end is a huge deus ex machina.
Movie 10 - Broly's survival is a gaping plot hole when he destroyed the only Saiyan Pod nearby. It also doesn't help the opening quest is overall a pointless side plot and Broly's characterisation is far worse than before.
Movie 11 - Pointless Broly milking. Making a clone of him some swamp monster looking thing makes him lose any traits that were unique to him. You could've had the villain's name or identity be anyone else and it wouldn't have changed anything.
Movie 13 - Way too much plot armour for characters such as Videl surviving Hildegarn's attacks and Goku holds back on using SS3 until the end for no reason. Also, Tapion going back in time for a happy ending makes any consequences of his struggles void.
Movie 14 - Super Saiyan God is a contrived, cheap power up, Vegeta's rage boost goes against the idea that these were something unique to Gohan (or at least half-Saiyans) and the Oracle Fish bringing prophecy into the series makes no sense in a series that can have events drastically change via time travel.
Movie 15 - Freeza reaching God Ki level in 4 months of training, time resets to make repercussions even more void and general rehashing of Freeza Arc story beats for nostalgia milking.
DBS Broly - Uses the hollow Minus events that ruin Bardock's characterisation and make the Saiyans out to be pathetic, Freeza's character is irreversibly ruined for the sake of a gag, Broly being able to reach God Ki levels from training on a planet where the strongest creatures probably don't even reach Nappa's level and all attempts to make him different from his previous self become hollow once he becomes a mindless berserker.

 

[Pakl]

Well I guess you look at specific things. I am talking about the main point which is the enjoy of watching a non canon movie which was great. Toei obviously did a lot of stupid things in movies like they did in the anime but still.

Lmao at Uiru's brain being too big to fit into a human's body. I have never thought about that, good catch.

Well, movie 4 was based on the mid late Freeza saga so using a namekian as a villian makes some sense.

Coola to me was one of the best villians based on his characteristics even though he was a cheap copy of Freeza. He is even more cruel than Freeza. Goku not going SSjin till the end is classic drama effect of the movie and considering the fact the movie was released while Goku still fought Freeza.

Movie 6 was terrible, I agree. Guess they had no choice to bring Coola back because they could not think of a new villian between Freeza and the arrival of the androids. Coola having Shunkan Ido can be explained as he achieved it from the big gete star

As for movie 7, well movies are alternative universes so to say it makes no sense Gero has another computer to create androids is the thing that makes no sense. Well, 13 had characteristics, Super 13 did not which I dont think was so bad.

Broli in movie 8 should of been much better created. His personality was good but his motivation was retarded. Hating Goku due to crying.... Stupid.

Movie 10 was terrible along with movie 11 but Toei likely made him back because the time lines those movies were following were terrible too. They could not use Goku and Vegeta in those movies due to their new forms not existing yet, so they had to bring Broli back. Movie 11 was the worst as they could not use even Gohan so they let the kids fight.

In movie 13 Goku goes SSjin 3 till the end is the same drama effect crap but its Boo saga so its terrible anyway with all the Goku haxes..

The new movies and super are crap so yeah...

 

[Pakl]

How are most of the movies bad?

I have a better question. How are they not?

I dont know... I have stopped to differ the difference between good and evil. What can I do?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Are you trying to sound like a sage? If so, it's not working.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Well I guess you look at specific things. I am talking about the main point which is the enjoy of watching a non canon movie which was great.

Enjoyment is a subjective aspect that has no bearing on the product's actual quality. If the writing of the film is poorly constructed, then that affects the objective quality of it and when a film is filled with more cons than pros in that department, it's objectively bad. You can still enjoy it, which is perfectly fine, but that doesn't make it good.

Well, movie 4 was based on the mid late Freeza saga so using a namekian as a villian makes some sense.

It wasn't that they used a Namekian as a villain, but that his motivation in gathering the Dragon Balls is a ripoff of Daimao's and his only motivation beyond that is such a generic supervillain goal as freezing the world. Piccolo Daimao had an interesting goal in his domination of wanting to see human society tear itself apart which retroactively becomes more interesting when learning how his original self's experiences with humanity may have influenced that dark side of his. Meanwhile, Slug is nothing but your typical moustache-twirling supervillain.

Coola to me was one of the best villians based on his characteristics even though he was a cheap copy of Freeza. He is even more cruel than Freeza.

So, you find him a good villain because he's a one-dimensional version of Freeza?
I'd also say it's more accurate to say he's a more ruthless and efficient version of Freeza. Freeza is by far more cruel with how he likes to torture his opponents.

Goku not going SSjin till the end is classic drama effect of the movie and considering the fact the movie was released while Goku still fought Freeza.

Goku had already shown the ability to power down and instantly go back into SSJ when fighting Freeza, at the point when Freeza used the Death Saucer specifically, so this part of the film is still inexcusable.

Coola having Shunkan Ido can be explained as he achieved it from the big gete star

That makes just as little sense when analysing and essentially downloading Shunkan Ido is something that doesn't fit with the Big Gete Star's functions. It is also something never explained in the film, so this is a pretty big assumption in order to attempt to plug a plot hole.

As for movie 7, well movies are alternative universes so to say it makes no sense Gero has another computer to create androids is the thing that makes no sense.

We're still shown events such as #17 killing Gero transpiring the same as in canon, so to say the computer is excused when nothing about the layout of Gero's lab is suggested to be different is weak. Beyond that, it's also a repetitive concept when Cell being in a secret underground lab had already been made apparent.

Well, 13 had characteristics,

In the dub, yes. In the original, he has nothing to him but "Kill Son Goku", making him a far more bland version of #16.

Super 13 did not which I dont think was so bad.

If your villain is nothing but some wall in the way of the heroes without any discerning qualities or much personal motivations of their own, then they're a poorly constructed villain. It also doesn't help that he's a ripoff of Cell (android uses two other androids to reach an ultimate form).

Movie 10 was terrible along with movie 11 but Toei likely made him back because the time lines those movies were following were terrible too. They could not use Goku and Vegeta in those movies due to their new forms not existing yet, so they had to bring Broli back. Movie 11 was the worst as they could not use even Gohan so they let the kids fight.

If anything, that just shows they should've waited for a more interesting scenario to work with or not produce those movies at all.

In movie 13 Goku goes SSjin 3 till the end is the same drama effect crap but its Boo saga so its terrible anyway with all the Goku haxes.

The Boo Arc has flaws, but also has redeeming qualities in its writing, so to say it's fine because the Boo Arc is bad isn't an argument. In the Boo Arc, Goku at least gave explanations for why he didn't put in all his effort at certain points such as not going SS3 against Vegeta or not killing Fat Boo. Here, there's zero justification for him holding back SS3.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

For me I didn't really even enjoy most of the movies, if they were supposed to be. They didn't feel like DragonBall to me, more like a cheap imitation.

One good thing about all the movies though was that we got ending songs and new sound-tracks.

Lord Slug could have been more interesting had they looked into his back-ground and him being send-away for being evil or whether him & Piccolo knew each other from before (IIRC Original Nameless Namekian got amnesia at some point). Also about the disaster that destroyed Planet Namek.

 

[Pakl]

Are you trying to sound like a sage? If so, it's not working.

You should know better than that. 2