why did lizardon/charizard stop liking satoshi/ash?

[Fantastische Hure]

i think i heard that had something to do with the game-mechanics & even in-universe i think that was explained as lizardo/lizardon being too high for him but i don't knw abt that explanation.

if there's another reason why do u think he stopped liking ash? (if u can & want to)

 

[Papasmurf]

Possibly because it wasn't originally Ash's Pokemon and evolving to Charmeleon was presumably a power trip for him.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

that's in-game logic too right?! i don't knw seemed to completely change character, even in the very episode hitokage evolved i think. like a complete 180. didn't they remember all satoshi & takeshi & kasumi did for him (if u can & want to answer)? he did remember in the episode where he started liking satoshi again tho i think.

 

[SSJ2]

Who the fuck is lizardon?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

same i think

 

[Papasmurf]

Who the fuck is lizardon?

Ass's Charizard - the only one of his Kanto starters to actually have a level above 16

 

[Papasmurf]

that's in-game logic too right?! i don't knw seemed to completely change character, even in the very episode hitokage evolved i think. like a complete 180. didn't they remember all satoshi & takeshi & kasumi did for him (if u can & want to answer)? he did remember in the episode where he started liking satoshi again tho i think.

Since Charmander/Hitokage only evolved because it beat that pack of Exeggutors, I would guess that it gained so much Exp in that fight that it now had more power than it knew what to do with, so that combined with Ash not even being his original trainer and his original trainer abandoning him in the first place for being weak caused it to want to flaunt its power more than value its relationship with his new master. Ofc none of that matters in the end when Charizard did not even once manage to get Ash a league victory

 

[Fantastische Hure]

lizardon might have been able to win the kanto league, i think

i think his other pokemon are still high, they just don't want to evolve. fushigidane/bulbasaur defeated a pokemon that defeated lizardon right?!

also just re-watched yester-day & i too think that maybe hitokage could have been with takeshi. satoshi rly didn't do anything in that episode i think. takeshi was the 1 who cared for hitokage the most i think.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

& still i don't think hitokage ever showed being like that, like none of lizardon's character traits after the evolution were ever seen with hitokage

 

[Papasmurf]

Bulbasaur/Fushigitane is the only Pokemon of his that overtly refused to evolve. Squirtle, Totodile, etc. never showed a desire to avoid evolution. Chalk it up to the anime making a mess of in-game level mechanics

I doubt Charizard would've been able to help Ash win the Kanto League either way. Richie got stomped by his next opponent and said opponent had a Rock/Ground Pokemon like Rhydon at his disposal (giving it a massive advantage over Ash's Charizard), not to mention in the next two rounds after that the competition could have only grown tougher and tougher. It's also worth noting that Charizard lost against a Hoenn guy's Blaziken despite the fact that he'd only been through two regions (less than Ash who'd been through Johto and Kanto as well as the Orange Islands), plus Ash's team was the strongest it'd ever been in Hoenn (overall, although I don't know if any of them were stronger than Lizardon individually) and it still only made it to Top 8 in that region. The first time Ash was ever in a good position to win a regional league without Uberfags blocking his way would be in Sinnoh I think. In any other league before, he'd have at most made it to the finals before losing to the eventual champion. Plus, even Paul/Shinji lost 3 leagues before he went to Sinnoh and he was a more skilled trainer than Ash when they met even if part of that can be credited to Ash's skill resetting between regions.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

lizardon defeated shigeru's kamex tho right?! so type-disadvantage might not be the end-all be-all, especially when that comes to lizardon i think.

pikachu also didn't want to evolve

 

[Papasmurf]

Pikachu has Light-Ball so he doesn't necessarily require evolution

Charizard would be at a far greater disadvantage against a Rhydon though, seeing as Fire/Flying types take 4x damage from Rock-type moves. It's the same reason why Gary/Shigeru's Scizor lost in one Flamethrower from Charizard. Plus Charizard was a lot more inexperienced in the Kanto League than he was at the end of the original series in the Johto League.

I gotta say using the Japanese names gets tiring when I don't even remember most of the Japanese Pokemon names, so I'm just gonna stick to the English translations from this post forward

 

[Fantastische Hure]

ye, seems that way i think

i'm still not sure abt why stopped liking tho i think.

 

[Papasmurf]

Honestly we could keep debating about the reason forever, I doubt they'll ever actually release a guidebook clearing it up since the anime showed us clearly that after evolving, Charmeleon/Charizard did not appreciate or remember what Ass and Brock had done for him until Ass tended to his injuries after his defeat against that Poliwrath

 

[Fantastische Hure]

considering the reason they used in-universe abt lizardon being too high levelled they might just say that even in a guide-book i think but that reason doesn't rly make sense to me i think. the moment where lizardon reminisced abt everything & then liked satoshi again was gr9 tho i think.

 

[Papasmurf]

The level excuse doesn't really make sense when you consider that May was able to control her evolved Pokemon fine despite being even more of a noob than Ash was in Kanto really, or when you consider the fact that Ash could control every Pokemon without hitches in Unova despite being reset to Unova-levels. So my most reasonable explanation would be that the combination of Ash's Charmeleon having been through a traumatic experience under the wing of his previous trainer, along with not originally being Ash's Pokemon and becoming higher leveled contributed to him getting disobedient upon evolution.

 

[Symbiote]

Not enough badges.

 

[Papasmurf]

Not enough badges.

Or maybe the Gym Leaders that Ash got his Kanto badges from without earning them trolled him and gave him fake ones

 

[Fantastische Hure]

i think i might agree. only thing is that i don't think hitokage ever showed any signs of personality like that, even in the episode where pokemon are talking & we know wot they say hitokage never doubted or anything i think but after evolution changed i think. do some pokemon change personality after they evolve (if u can & want to answer)? i think i heard that some-where but lizardon still remembers all that happened i think.

 

[Papasmurf]

Can't name many examples off the top of my head but I think Cyndaquil became a more confident battler after evolving into Quilava and Grovyle became depressed and unable to use any techniques after evolving and losing a Meganium's love iirc.